Sustainability Inspires Catherine Bradley

Amanda Young

Hello, I'm Amanda Young. You are listening to the abrdn Sustainability Inspires Podcast discussing all things relating to sustainable investing.

Today we're talking about the unstoppable force of women and their role in finance. And I cannot think of a better guest to have and Catherine Bradley, welcome to our podcast, Catherine.

Catherine Bradley

Good morning, Amanda. Thank you for having me.

Amanda Young

So, let me start by telling you a little bit about Catherine. We are extremely lucky at abrdn to have had her appointed to our board in January 2022. She brings with her more than 30 years of experience in financial services, which includes executive experience advising global financial institutions, and industrial companies on complex transactions and strategic opportunities. She brings knowledge from working across Europe and Asia, serving on boards of leading consumer facing companies and working with regulators and standard setters. Catherine holds a number of non-executive positions including at Johnson Electric Holdings, Easyjet and Kingfisher. Now, in her career, Catherine has served on the boards of leading industrial consumer facing companies in a number of countries UK, France and Hong Kong, and she was appointed by her majesty's treasury to the board of the Financial Conduct Authority in 2014, and played an important role in establishing the FICC market standards board in 2015. At the FCA, Catherine was chair of the audit committee, a member of the nomination and risk committees and a whistleblower champion for the FCA staff. Katherine stepped down from these boards in 2020, and between 2021 and 2022. She was also a board member of the value reporting foundation where she co-chaired the order committee. Now in her executive career, Catherine held a number of senior finance roles in investment banking, and risk management in the US with Merrill Lynch in the UK and Asia with Credit Suisse, and finally in Asia with Société Générale. She returned to Europe in 2014 to start her non-executive career. Prior to her career starting she graduated from the H. E. C. Paris School of Management with a Major in Finance and International Economics and was awarded a CBE in 2019 for public service. Now outside are for her illustrious career, Catherine is interested in pottery, as well as her soon to be four granddaughters. So welcome, and let's start the conversation with a really interesting question Catherine a bachelor hobby making pottery. Now you probably don't know this, but I'm a secret fan of the great pottery throw down on television. So I would love to hear about what interests you in poetry, and the things you most enjoy making.

Catherine Bradley

I learned poetry when I was in Asia. And now I continue I go to a studio where on the Isle of Wight where we've got a small cottage. I love it because it's humbling. You never know how things will turn out. You use your hands, not your brains. And also, it makes you to chat with local people just understand what their priorities what their needs are. It's magic. Be careful, Amanda, if I know when your birthday is, you might end up getting very shabby chic salad bowl.

Amanda Young

I forgot love a shabby chic salad bowl. Thank you so much. Now you've had an illustrious career in financial services. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into financial services and maybe the different things that you have done.

Catherine Bradley

The whole family were medics for several generations. So, I knew I didn't want to be a medic. I was meant to be an engineer. But that meant focusing very too quickly on math on very scientific topics. And I didn't want to give a business affairs. So, I turned to business instead. Started my life I've got a strong French accent, but I've never worked in France. I started in in the US then in the UK. And then finally Asia for six years. What has always kept me going is a strong structurer. So, it's strong structuring skills, maybe from the engineering days, and then you apply it to people I was in charge of all my life of what you use derivatives to fulfil corporate big companies, plans like m&a or other corporate actions. So, it's always working the beginning of the week with CEOs having the emotional skills to understand what they really wanted to achieve, and then the rest of the week trying to de risk it. So that has kept me going all my life more and more senior, but always clinging to the strong technical knowledge.

Amanda Young

Now, today's sustainability topic is around women and finance and in particular your career from executive to non-executive. Many women and men listening to this will be interested in understanding how you transitioned out of these executive positions that you've been talking about and into the non-executive space. Perhaps you can tell us a little bit about your own career change. And what were the things that surprised you, or things you feel people should look out for?

Catherine Bradley

Well, the first thing is, is a word of warning, non-exec career is not suited for everybody why you're no longer in the driving seat, you're no longer a CEO or head of strategy or whatever. What you do is that you empower people to maybe perhaps do the right thing, you've got to devise to make sure they implement the right strategy. So, if you're still kind of a race horse and greyhound loving to get success, and loving to be complimented for your success, it might not be for you. Also, especially in the UK, and some European countries, and in the US, there is a heavy level of regulations compliance, especially if you work for a financial institution. So first is a word of caution. But it's been said, in my case, it's been a huge joy. You discover when you move to unknown exact sec, you know many more things and your narrow field of expertise. It's a joy also to work in other sectors, and the joy to move further and further away from your comfort zone. It's a joy also to keep working with different generations with different kinds of people. Suddenly, I've become a guru in sustainability, I hope and in digital. In all kinds of other things. So, I would say test yourself while you're still in executive career, and because there is ageism, start taking a first roll, see how you would like it, so that you don't have to make a sudden plunge from non-exec to Exec? Or the other way around. Sorry.

Amanda Young

No, that's really helpful. I think there's many people who believe that this is a career path, but I like your guidance that is not for everybody. And so perhaps you can touch now on what it's been like being a woman in finance, particularly in Asia, you spent many years out there. What are the challenges you faced? And how did you learn to navigate the gender and the diversity defined in Asia? And what have you seen over the past three decades in terms of change?

Catherine Bradley

Yes, I mean, I was aware of diversity and having been the only woman for many, many years in my career, without any role model without anybody to look up to. But Asia was especially useful for me because then I was in the minority seat. And you always always for diversity you have to make to go the extra the extra length, you have to put yourself in the shoes of whoever the whoever is opposite you. Whenever I was walking into a Chinese meeting, I always had to remind myself, you're a woman and you're French. Why because in my eyes, I was a business person, and I was making things happen. But you have to remember how you look to other people what they might feel. And then you can also a big rule is always try to change your own behaviour towards them, not always expecting them to change you. When you're in Asia, you're gweilo you know, gweilo, you're a foreigner, many a Westerner, you're white ghost. So, you've always got to remember, and it's good. I think for any lessons in life, how do I look to other people. And then once I've understood their standpoint, maybe I can help to change it pave the way show that I'm more than just a French white woman. And we can move move further away. So, it's been very helpful to me all my life after that you do the first step towards people, and hopefully, diversity and inclusion can happen.

Amanda Young

So, it's very much about adapting to your environment, which I just think is a wonderful way to approach it. Now, I've often heard women complain that promotions go to men who spend a lot of time chit chatting at the watercooler while they just get their heads down and carry on working to deliver. I've heard you touch on this in the past the importance for developing soft skills beyond just an output and delivery in the workplace. Maybe you can touch on that and what you've learned in your career from those soft skills.

Sustainability Inspires Catherine Bradley

Amanda Young

Hello, I'm Amanda Young. You are listening to the abrdn Sustainability Inspires Podcast discussing all things relating to sustainable investing.

Today we're talking about the unstoppable force of women and their role in finance. And I cannot think of a better guest to have and Catherine Bradley, welcome to our podcast, Catherine.

Catherine Bradley

Good morning, Amanda. Thank you for having me.

Amanda Young

So, let me start by telling you a little bit about Catherine. We are extremely lucky at abrdn to have had her appointed to our board in January 2022. She brings with her more than 30 years of experience in financial services, which includes executive experience advising global financial institutions, and industrial companies on complex transactions and strategic opportunities. She brings knowledge from working across Europe and Asia, serving on boards of leading consumer facing companies and working with regulators and standard setters. Catherine holds a number of non-executive positions including at Johnson Electric Holdings, Easyjet and Kingfisher. Now, in her career, Catherine has served on the boards of leading industrial consumer facing companies in a number of countries UK, France and Hong Kong, and she was appointed by her majesty's treasury to the board of the Financial Conduct Authority in 2014, and played an important role in establishing the FICC market standards board in 2015. At the FCA, Catherine was chair of the audit committee, a member of the nomination and risk committees and a whistleblower champion for the FCA staff. Katherine stepped down from these boards in 2020, and between 2021 and 2022. She was also a board member of the value reporting foundation where she co-chaired the order committee. Now in her executive career, Catherine held a number of senior finance roles in investment banking, and risk management in the US with Merrill Lynch in the UK and Asia with Credit Suisse, and finally in Asia with Société Générale. She returned to Europe in 2014 to start her non-executive career. Prior to her career starting she graduated from the H. E. C. Paris School of Management with a Major in Finance and International Economics and was awarded a CBE in 2019 for public service. Now outside are for her illustrious career, Catherine is interested in pottery, as well as her soon to be four granddaughters. So welcome, and let's start the conversation with a really interesting question Catherine a bachelor hobby making pottery. Now you probably don't know this, but I'm a secret fan of the great pottery throw down on television. So I would love to hear about what interests you in poetry, and the things you most enjoy making.

Catherine Bradley

I learned poetry when I was in Asia. And now I continue I go to a studio where on the Isle of Wight where we've got a small cottage. I love it because it's humbling. You never know how things will turn out. You use your hands, not your brains. And also, it makes you to chat with local people just understand what their priorities what their needs are. It's magic. Be careful, Amanda, if I know when your birthday is, you might end up getting very shabby chic salad bowl.

Amanda Young

I forgot love a shabby chic salad bowl. Thank you so much. Now you've had an illustrious career in financial services. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into financial services and maybe the different things that you have done.

Catherine Bradley

The whole family were medics for several generations. So, I knew I didn't want to be a medic. I was meant to be an engineer. But that meant focusing very too quickly on math on very scientific topics. And I didn't want to give a business affairs. So, I turned to business instead. Started my life I've got a strong French accent, but I've never worked in France. I started in in the US then in the UK. And then finally Asia for six years. What has always kept me going is a strong structurer. So, it's strong structuring skills, maybe from the engineering days, and then you apply it to people I was in charge of all my life of what you use derivatives to fulfil corporate big companies, plans like m&a or other corporate actions. So, it's always working the beginning of the week with CEOs having the emotional skills to understand what they really wanted to achieve, and then the rest of the week trying to de risk it. So that has kept me going all my life more and more senior, but always clinging to the strong technical knowledge.

Amanda Young

Now, today's sustainability topic is around women and finance and in particular your career from executive to non-executive. Many women and men listening to this will be interested in understanding how you transitioned out of these executive positions that you've been talking about and into the non-executive space. Perhaps you can tell us a little bit about your own career change. And what were the things that surprised you, or things you feel people should look out for?

Catherine Bradley

Well, the first thing is, is a word of warning, non-exec career is not suited for everybody why you're no longer in the driving seat, you're no longer a CEO or head of strategy or whatever. What you do is that you empower people to maybe perhaps do the right thing, you've got to devise to make sure they implement the right strategy. So, if you're still kind of a race horse and greyhound loving to get success, and loving to be complimented for your success, it might not be for you. Also, especially in the UK, and some European countries, and in the US, there is a heavy level of regulations compliance, especially if you work for a financial institution. So first is a word of caution. But it's been said, in my case, it's been a huge joy. You discover when you move to unknown exact sec, you know many more things and your narrow field of expertise. It's a joy also to work in other sectors, and the joy to move further and further away from your comfort zone. It's a joy also to keep working with different generations with different kinds of people. Suddenly, I've become a guru in sustainability, I hope and in digital. In all kinds of other things. So, I would say test yourself while you're still in executive career, and because there is ageism, start taking a first roll, see how you would like it, so that you don't have to make a sudden plunge from non-exec to Exec? Or the other way around. Sorry.

Amanda Young

No, that's really helpful. I think there's many people who believe that this is a career path, but I like your guidance that is not for everybody. And so perhaps you can touch now on what it's been like being a woman in finance, particularly in Asia, you spent many years out there. What are the challenges you faced? And how did you learn to navigate the gender and the diversity defined in Asia? And what have you seen over the past three decades in terms of change?

Catherine Bradley

Yes, I mean, I was aware of diversity and having been the only woman for many, many years in my career, without any role model without anybody to look up to. But Asia was especially useful for me because then I was in the minority seat. And you always always for diversity you have to make to go the extra the extra length, you have to put yourself in the shoes of whoever the whoever is opposite you. Whenever I was walking into a Chinese meeting, I always had to remind myself, you're a woman and you're French. Why because in my eyes, I was a business person, and I was making things happen. But you have to remember how you look to other people what they might feel. And then you can also a big rule is always try to change your own behaviour towards them, not always expecting them to change you. When you're in Asia, you're gweilo you know, gweilo, you're a foreigner, many a Westerner, you're white ghost. So, you've always got to remember, and it's good. I think for any lessons in life, how do I look to other people. And then once I've understood their standpoint, maybe I can help to change it pave the way show that I'm more than just a French white woman. And we can move move further away. So, it's been very helpful to me all my life after that you do the first step towards people, and hopefully, diversity and inclusion can happen.

Amanda Young

So, it's very much about adapting to your environment, which I just think is a wonderful way to approach it. Now, I've often heard women complain that promotions go to men who spend a lot of time chit chatting at the watercooler while they just get their heads down and carry on working to deliver. I've heard you touch on this in the past the importance for developing soft skills beyond just an output and delivery in the workplace. Maybe you can touch on that and what you've learned in your career from those soft skills.